READER: The concept of better version of Democracy or
Divincracy (Divine Democracy) appears to be more philosophical
in Nature, it is more important to give practical insight and to do
list, rather than what is to be done, and it should be given what we
are going to do as our collective activity?
EDITOR: (1) What is practical? If you have done any practical in your life then one will appreciate that for any practical, there is theory behind it, theory of cause and its effect, theory of process and theory of interactions of various constituents and then following these theories one gets result (may be as expected or may be unexpected or may be surprise – a brand new result). Thus be practical, suggest that you try certain things if it succeeds accept it and if fails reject it.
(2) Much development has taken place by creating first hypothesis (which you can call philosophy and not Fool-sophy) then lab test, then field test and finally theory (hypothesis for your version -a philosophy) put into practical use. In common parlance -people tell others, ‘be practical’ without knowing its meaning and significance.
(3) As far as we are concerned we do not in any way submit anything without it being passed by our personal testing and tasting. And all things in this conversation or in Mita or in Video recording of question answers on various subjects are faithful submission of practical things only. Only thing is, that, if practical is bigger its result reaps/appears in more time than the birth of a child (for rat, cat, human and elephant) and so it appears as if it is not practical.
Things that are in practice are the result of earlier practical (conducted by someone else) and not a fresh one and has become routine, you can call it what so ever you wish to. Generally, in day to day routine work theories are summarized/written for children to do and they call practical book- as for them it is new thing and so they call it a practical.
(4) India was invaded, enslaved and got freedom from slavery and also got divided because someone must have thought of it, must have conceived the idea, must have created/ hypothesized it (which you can call philosophy) then some discussion/lab test then field test and then only theory was put into practical use and became reality. Hind Swaraj was one such effort.
- Divincracy is an effort to give practical insight along with to do list, rather than just a wish list of what is to be done, and it definitely states what we are going to do as our collective activity and that we are going to achieve individual and collective healthy, happy and holy life-a living paradise.
READER: Will you elaborate your views on better version of Democracy- Divincracy (Divine Democracy).
EDITOR: Before proceeding about Divincracy, it is important to know why and how system fails, and for these views of Mr. Gandhi from Hind Swaraj will be of worth consideration.
On the similar questions reply of Mr. Gandhi is:
QST: I would now like to know your views on Swaraj. I fear that our interpretation is not the same as yours.
ANS: It is quite possible that we do not attach the same meaning to the term. You and I and all Indians are impatient to obtain Swaraj, but we are certainly not decided as to what it is. To drive the English out of India is a thought heard from many mouths, but it does not seem that many have properly considered why it should be so. I must ask you a question. Do you think that it is necessary to drive away the English, if we get all we want?
QST: I should ask of them only one thing that is: “Please leave our country.” If, after they have complied with this request, their withdrawal from India means that they are still in India. I should have no objection. Then we would understand that, in their language, the word “gone” is equivalent to “remained”.
ANS: Well then, let us suppose that the English have retired. What will you do then?
QST: That question cannot be answered at this stage. The state after withdrawal will depend largely upon the manner of it. If, as you assume, they retire, it seems to me we shall still keep their constitution and shall carry on the Government. If they simply retire for the asking we should have an army, etc., ready at hand. We should, therefore, have no difficulty in carrying on the Government.
ANS: You may think so; I do not. But I will not discuss the matter just now. I have to answer your question, and that I can do well by asking you several questions. Why do you want to drive away the English?
QST: Because India has become impoverished by their Government. They take away our money from year to year. The most important posts are reserved for themselves. We are kept in a state of slavery. They behave insolently towards us and disregard our feelings.
ANS: If they do not take our money away, become gentle, and give us responsible posts, would you still consider their presence to be harmful?
QST: That question is useless. It is similar to the question whether there is any harm in associating with a tiger if he changes his nature. Such a question is sheer waste of time. When a tiger changes his nature, Englishmen will change theirs. This is not possible, and to believe it to be possible is contrary to human experience.
ANS: Supposing we get Self-Government similar to what the Canadians and the South Africans have, will it be good enough?
QST: That question also is useless. We may get it when we have the same powers; we shall then hoist our own flag. As is Japan, so must India be. We must own our navy, our army, and we must have our own splendour, and then will India’s voice ring through the world.
ANS: You have drawn the picture well. In effect it means this; that we want English rule without the Englishman. You want the tiger’s nature, but not the tiger; that is to say, you would make India English. And when it becomes English, it will be called not Hindustan but Englistan. This is not the Swaraj that I want.
QST: I have placed before you my idea of Swaraj as I think it should be. But now I want to know your views.
ANS: There is need for patience. My views will develop of themselves in the course of this discourse. It is as difficult for me to understand the true nature of Swaraj as it seems to you to be easy. I shall therefore, for the time being, content myself with endeavouring to show that what you call Swaraj is not truly Swaraj.
READER: What do you say on above wherein Mr. Gandhi had not described what Hind Swaraj is? We would now like to know your views on what Swaraj is?
EDITOR: Swaraj is basically raj by the self that is in my home my rule in Mr. Gandhi home Mr. Gandhi’s rule, in my village my village rule in Mr. Gandhi’s village his village rule, in my country my rule in American, Russia China etc their countries rule, so much so that for Swaraj. There is clear distinction between Suraj (good governance), Swaraj (self governance) and governance on the self (self mastery-which in spiritual circle indicated as Swami) and this has to be kept in mind.
- What Mr. Gandhi said on Swaraj in the topic- How can India become free (Hind Swaraj) is given below:
QST: If Indian civilization is, as you say, the best how do you account for India’s slavery?
ANS: This civilization is unquestionably the best, but it is to be observed that all civilizations have been on their trial. That civilization which is permanent outlives it. Because the sons of India were found wanting, its civilization has been placed in jeopardy. But its strength is to be seen in its ability to survive the shock. Moreover, the whole of India is not touched. Those alone who have been affected by Western civilization have become enslaved. We measure the universe by our own miserable foot- rule. When we are slaves, we think that the whole universe is enslaved. Because we are in an abject condition, we think that the whole of India is in that condition. As a matter of fact, it is not so, yet it is as well to impute our slavery to the whole of India. But if we bear in mind the above fact, we can see that if we become free, India is free. And in this thought you have a definition of Swaraj. It is Swaraj when we learn to rule ourselves. It is, therefore, in the palm of our hands. Do not consider this Swaraj to be like a dream. There is no idea of sitting still. The Swaraj that I wish to picture is such that, after we have once realized it, we shall endeavor to the end of our life-time to persuade others to do likewise. But such Swaraj has to be experienced, by each one for himself. One drowning man will never save another. Slaves ourselves, it would be a mere pretension to think of freeing others. Now you will have seen that it is not necessary for us to have as our goal the expulsion of the English. If the English become Indianised, we can accommodate them. If they wish to remain in India along with their civilization, there is no room for them. It lies with us to bring about such a state of things.
READER: We would like to know more on Divincracy.
EDITOR: We all want divineness in democracy but do you think that it is necessary to drive away the current form of democracy? Simply replacing the people and maintaining the system from where corruption breeds will make no change in the long run.
As far as Divincracy is concerned it is the application of dharma/ natural law in the governance of government by the public for the public and of the public (democracy).
All the government system currently known and applied has failed in deliverance to its population and its dealing with world at large, and this indicates the necessities of some deletion and some addition in the working pattern of government. Master says that the government which will have spirituality or to say divinity in the democracy will be the best form of government.
-Divincracy is in real sense will be the government by the people of the people for the people, and not the Government by the riches of the riches and for the riches and work like suction pump for common masses to deliver the jet stream to the riches, or the government by the government employee, of the government employee and for the government employee
-Divincracy is the government by the selected and elected people, of the people and for the people wherein leaders will be selected by the people; its decision will be screened by the masters and in emergency will be restricted and can be vetoed by the spiritual master of the country, so as to have ethics in the system, for having and maintaining healthiness and happiness in society.
Further many masters are trying and putting their effort in the direction of setting a government where it can evaporate slums and scams and settle and spread spirituality so it will be better for everybody to wait for consolidation and finalization of collective effort as to what and why of Divincracy, and also when and how and where to start Divincracy.
READER: Will Divincracy be a new concept to the western world?
EDITOR: In a conference ‘on what can be the best governing system’, (attended by foreign ministers, political thinker and other eminent personalities), one speaker said ‘ if anyone out of us in any time/moment in our life become weak and helpless, destitute or desolate, what will be our expectation at that time from the government? The government which is able to fulfill our expectation at that point of time can said to be a good government. It is observed that people in their deep desperation and helplessness recall/remember the divine power, and if government is able to fulfill the requirement can be said to have divinity for that one i.e. divinity for everyone.
So to say that western thinker/philosopher does not think in this line is not proper and hence Divincracy cannot be said to be a brand new concept for western world.
READER: you will agree that current form of democracy has come up in the west out of its effort (of people) to drive away the atrocities caused by collusion between king and religious head?
EDITOR: (1) You are right. Utilization of sentiments attached with the religion by the kings and utilization of power attached with the king by priests had caused grave damage to the psyche of people which force public to throw both of them. In the western world, this was considered a welcome change. Further, to prove their point, votaries of current form of democracy and ill effects of collusion between kings and religious heads, are pointing to Muslim countries which are in a fighting spree.
(2) What is said by the masters/sages, that spirituality is the base and politics (Rajniti-ethics of government) is the super structure built on it’, Rajniti (politics) without base is baseless and spiritually without structure is like an open land or barren land or jungle. And thus both have its importance; role reversal or both playing the same role was problem in the western world and is the problem in few Muslim countries which are in a fighting spree. Thus collusion between government and religious head need to be taken care of and surely Divincracy addressed these issues.
3) Divincracy also addressed the issues of concurrent highhandedness of fundamentalists, intolerants and ritualistic/karmkandi attitude of priests in the worship places as well as in ceremonies performed during mourning’s/celebrations.
READER: Divincracy appears to be the best form of government is the indication been drawn by you, have they (western world) also drawn the same conclusion from the speech you are referring ‘on what can be the best governing system’, if not then what they have done in their countries having been understood the desires of weakest and the helpless.
EDITOR: Anyone who draws real conclusion from the speech ‘on what can be the best governing system’ will be the same, i.e. pointing toward democracy that has godliness /divinity in it. But after having rejected kingdom for freedom and religion for region it is very heavy to rethink the whole thing, hence instead of thinking on spirituality they have started lots of welfare measures for their citizen. Their welfare measures are so much that they (Democratic countries of the western world) claim to be truly a welfare government.
READER: If that is so ‘that they (Democratic countries of the western world) claim to be truly a welfare government’ why do you still feel that there is need of Divincracy in those countries also?
EDITOR: In their earnest desire to help their citizen they appear to be erecting shrieking tower of babble or a Golden Lanka. Their materialistic desires are becoming endless, and keep them on tenterhooks, without any solace or contentment.
To avert fratricidal war (after two fratricidal war and ongoing economic war along with preparation for possible forth world war) or to provide solace after war Divincracy is necessary.
READER: What will be the major shift you see in Divincracy vis-a-vis–current form of Democracy?
EDITOR: Democracy in current form try to connect with each and every individual and hence could not connect with anyone or fail to connect with each and every individual and has caused disintegration of family and society and this is the root cause of all the problem what we see in Democracy.
As faith and mutual trust i.e. spirituality in Divincracy is the base hence definitely this has integrating power in it.
READER: Has Democracy really failed as concept?
EDITOR: Present form of democracy is just functioning in England, America and many other countries because we have not found any alternative to it, the moment we will find workable alternative, present form of democracy will vanish or will submerge in it.
- In present form of democracy- the wise weeps, the ordinary works and suffers but cheats enjoy. Situation like this cannot be appreciated.